A new grand jury? well, third time's the charm, right? It's time to let this die like the less than nothing it isn't and never was. As Dems said seven years ago, "MoveOn"
And for the record I didn't care about the lying about sex then, either, so there's no point in trying to argue that with me...besides, there were plenty of significant plagues to hang Clinton on anyway.
I know it's a little off topic for this post, and not to imply that anybody here is doing it, but it got me thinking...does anyone notice how celebrity infatuation (I love so and so, Mr X is so hot) is most generally a female trait? For instance I notice SO many more teenage girls laying "claim" to various pop culture icons, whereas I don't see many boys doing similar things...all the evidence that you need is that virtually every "teen" targeted magazine is aimed squarely at young women... Does that mean that just 'cause I'm male I naturally pay more attention to girls, and don't notice the same traits in other guys? (I myself definitely have nothing to do with celeb worship, I think it's a waste of perfectly good brain cells, so I don't even really know what it's like)
Mike, I know a lie is a lie, and it is never a good thing.
There is a big difference between lying about sex and then coming foward and telling the truth, and lying to get the US into an illegal war and continuing to lie to try to cover up all the previous lies.
I don't ever remember anyone saying that Clinton was a perfect president. I do know that the country as a whole was in alot better shape when he was in office. The economy was robust, people were working for decent wages, and before the end of his term the defecit was gone and there was a surplus...which Bush made sure was gone within the first 18 months he was in office.
As far as all these "things" that can be hung on Clinton, just what are they. You always want proof, now it's your turn to show proof.
Whitewater. If you don't know what that is, google it. Also, not only did Clinton lie about sex, he threatened witnesses, tried to conceal evidence, and took an active (and provably active) role in covering up the whole thing. Forgetting two year old conversations is not even in the same universe as far as "cover ups" go
Eddie, go back and re-read everything I've already said about the war, plamegate, Fitzgerald, and yellowcake...then if you have a disagreement with a specific point, tell me what it is, and tell me why, and give some evidence...otherwise I'm not going to bother with you anymore. You keep repeating "illegal war" as if it were true...the war was in accordance with every UN resolution, and also the terms of the cease-fire at the end of the Desert Storm campaign. There was nothing illegal about it. Oh, another tidbit of great news!
And you know what, I completely agree with you that Bush has been a terrible spender, and it would be nice if he vetoed every pork bill from here on out. That's why we need to get someone like Mitt Romney in there in 2008, since he has a track record of taking huge deficits and turning them into equally huge surpluses.
Mike. 7 years of investigation and what was Ken Starr able to hang his hat on? Only that Clinton lied about getting blowed. How much money did Ken go through trying to prove Whitewater, trying to prove Travelgate, trying to prove Paula Jones and Troopergate. And Starr was a Republican lackee! They couldn't pin anything on Clinton with the first Independant Council, so they hired one of their own to go after him!
On the House vote. It's nice to see that Dem's aren't the only ones in Congress that know how to pull a stunt. Comeone... has there ever been a one line resolution passes?
...does anyone notice how celebrity infatuation (I love so and so, Mr X is so hot) is most generally a female trait? For instance I notice SO many more teenage girls laying "claim" to various pop culture icons, whereas I don't see many boys doing similar things...all the evidence that you need is that virtually every "teen" targeted magazine is aimed squarely at young women... Does that mean that just 'cause I'm male I naturally pay more attention to girls, and don't notice the same traits in other guys? (I myself definitely have nothing to do with celeb worship, I think it's a waste of perfectly good brain cells, so I don't even really know what it's like)
Yeah... I dunno. Women have this fixation on Fitzy. I think he evokes a sort of To Kill a Mockingbird vibe with some of them.
I was fixated with Charleze Therone for a while... then I saw Monster and yeah... now, not so much.
Mike, As far as this being an illegal war, maybe you should read the Constitution of the United States.
In there we are directed to never attack another country unless we or an ally of ours is attacked first. Iraq did not attack us nor any ally of us, therefore this war is illegal.
I notice you like to pull up Un resolutions when it benefits your position, but any other time it is a usless body.
Nothing came of "Whitewater" because Clinton was proved to have done nothing wrong.
...not only did Clinton lie about sex, he threatened witnesses, tried to conceal evidence, and took an active (and provably active) role in covering up the whole thing.
Just where is your proof on this.
Forgetting two year old conversations is not even in the same universe as far as "cover ups" go.
If you read as much as you claim to, you know full well that this is not just about "forgetting"...intentionally...old conversations. This is about cover ups, and the outing of a CIA opperative which by law is a treasonous act. I do believe treason is a much higher crime then lying about a BJ aquired in the Oval Office.
With Clinton, I have to admit, it's getting into a subject I haven't researched as extensively as present day stuff, but one reason it was hard to pin him down was tremendous pressure from the media, the public, and most especially the white house not to move forward: Things like witnesses were threatened or paid off, some actually died mysterious "accidental" deaths, stuff like that. There just isn't any of that going on today, and STILL the only thing Fitzgerald has come up with so far (Libby's indictment) is falling apart just because of new evidence from Woodward and others. The conspiracy links just aren't there like they were in the Clinton days... There's just no evidence that there's anything going on here. Remember that they could find anything on Al Capone, either...Clinton was the same way...everybody knew about the skeletons in the closet, but nobody could "prove" anything to the system.
Maybe that says something about the system, and how useless it is, and we need a new system...that's a legitimate question, and an issue I think should be addressed... It's probably not likely to happen anytime soon, but things like that happen because people start talking about it outside of the fever swamp, which is the only place plamegate matters to anybody. The average American doesn't know the difference between a special prosecutor and the garbage man. So the politicians are probably safe in their own little world with a useless special legal system.
You sound like the trade federation guy in Star Wars Episode I in the senate where, in refering to the invasion of a world by his own organization, he says, "There is no proof" - The problem with this is that regardless whether the Senate knows about it yet, the "proof" is in the actions, and while the statement itself may be "true", that nobody there could produce any evidence, the original charge is still accurate.
Which makes my next statement seem to contradict, however...
Yes treason is a higher crime....but it never happened. It has not been shown that Plame was undercover, or that anyone acted with the intent to "out" her.
Accusations on both sides, but in the case of clinton, evidence was found and reported...but most of it was never acted upon in a legal sense for one reason or another... If you ignore it, that's your problem, but it is out there.
in the case of Plame, evidence of "treason" has not been found, so there's nothing to ignore... You can find all the clinton stuff yourself if you really want to know, but I don't think you do, and whatever I present it's unlikely you'll believe it anyway, so why should I waste my time?
Your constitutional reference in Article 1 Section 10 Clause 3:
"No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."
This is a regulation of State's powers clause, but even if you assume it isn't, Congress gave consent, so that argument is void.
Mike M is a misogynistic freak, and watch out, your stereotyping trait is showing (a big ol' sign of being a rightwing black/white thinker). I haven't had a crush on a celeb since I was 9, and even then, I sure didn't make a big deal of it. I know just as many men (if not more) who have crushes on female celebrities. And no, NOT the gay ones. What a grotesque stereotype. As a woman and a feminist, I'm highly offended. If anything, you will find more men blogs with "She's so hot" comments than womens'. Read a bit, won't you? Jerk.
Oh and Mike, by the way: I think Fitzgerald appeals to women because, like most people in general, we are attracted to the powerful. It's human nature, NOT A GENDER THING. Try thinking of folks on an individual basis. I bet it will make your brain hurt.
17 Comments:
He is a good looking man. If you like the tall dark and powerfull kind.
Yeah, I agree, his wife is pretty lucky.
Apparently he's called for a new grand jury. Where's that fat lady that all the right wing pundants have been talking about as of late?
A new grand jury? well, third time's the charm, right? It's time to let this die like the less than nothing it isn't and never was. As Dems said seven years ago, "MoveOn"
And for the record I didn't care about the lying about sex then, either, so there's no point in trying to argue that with me...besides, there were plenty of significant plagues to hang Clinton on anyway.
I know it's a little off topic for this post, and not to imply that anybody here is doing it, but it got me thinking...does anyone notice how celebrity infatuation (I love so and so, Mr X is so hot) is most generally a female trait? For instance I notice SO many more teenage girls laying "claim" to various pop culture icons, whereas I don't see many boys doing similar things...all the evidence that you need is that virtually every "teen" targeted magazine is aimed squarely at young women... Does that mean that just 'cause I'm male I naturally pay more attention to girls, and don't notice the same traits in other guys? (I myself definitely have nothing to do with celeb worship, I think it's a waste of perfectly good brain cells, so I don't even really know what it's like)
Mike,
I know a lie is a lie, and it is never a good thing.
There is a big difference between lying about sex and then coming foward and telling the truth, and lying to get the US into an illegal war and continuing to lie to try to cover up all the previous lies.
I don't ever remember anyone saying that Clinton was a perfect president. I do know that the country as a whole was in alot better shape when he was in office. The economy was robust, people were working for decent wages, and before the end of his term the defecit was gone and there was a surplus...which Bush made sure was gone within the first 18 months he was in office.
As far as all these "things" that can be hung on Clinton, just what are they. You always want proof, now it's your turn to show proof.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Whitewater. If you don't know what that is, google it. Also, not only did Clinton lie about sex, he threatened witnesses, tried to conceal evidence, and took an active (and provably active) role in covering up the whole thing. Forgetting two year old conversations is not even in the same universe as far as "cover ups" go
Eddie, go back and re-read everything I've already said about the war, plamegate, Fitzgerald, and yellowcake...then if you have a disagreement with a specific point, tell me what it is, and tell me why, and give some evidence...otherwise I'm not going to bother with you anymore. You keep repeating "illegal war" as if it were true...the war was in accordance with every UN resolution, and also the terms of the cease-fire at the end of the Desert Storm campaign. There was nothing illegal about it. Oh, another tidbit of great news!
And you know what, I completely agree with you that Bush has been a terrible spender, and it would be nice if he vetoed every pork bill from here on out. That's why we need to get someone like Mitt Romney in there in 2008, since he has a track record of taking huge deficits and turning them into equally huge surpluses.
Mike. 7 years of investigation and what was Ken Starr able to hang his hat on? Only that Clinton lied about getting blowed. How much money did Ken go through trying to prove Whitewater, trying to prove Travelgate, trying to prove Paula Jones and Troopergate. And Starr was a Republican lackee! They couldn't pin anything on Clinton with the first Independant Council, so they hired one of their own to go after him!
On the House vote. It's nice to see that Dem's aren't the only ones in Congress that know how to pull a stunt. Comeone... has there ever been a one line resolution passes?
...does anyone notice how celebrity infatuation (I love so and so, Mr X is so hot) is most generally a female trait? For instance I notice SO many more teenage girls laying "claim" to various pop culture icons, whereas I don't see many boys doing similar things...all the evidence that you need is that virtually every "teen" targeted magazine is aimed squarely at young women... Does that mean that just 'cause I'm male I naturally pay more attention to girls, and don't notice the same traits in other guys? (I myself definitely have nothing to do with celeb worship, I think it's a waste of perfectly good brain cells, so I don't even really know what it's like)
Yeah... I dunno. Women have this fixation on Fitzy. I think he evokes a sort of To Kill a Mockingbird vibe with some of them.
I was fixated with Charleze Therone for a while... then I saw Monster and yeah... now, not so much.
Mike, As far as this being an illegal war, maybe you should read the Constitution of the United States.
In there we are directed to never attack another country unless we or an ally of ours is attacked first. Iraq did not attack us nor any ally of us, therefore this war is illegal.
I notice you like to pull up Un resolutions when it benefits your position, but any other time it is a usless body.
Nothing came of "Whitewater" because Clinton was proved to have done nothing wrong.
...not only did Clinton lie about sex, he threatened witnesses, tried to conceal evidence, and took an active (and provably active) role in covering up the whole thing.
Just where is your proof on this.
Forgetting two year old conversations is not even in the same universe as far as "cover ups" go.
If you read as much as you claim to, you know full well that this is not just about "forgetting"...intentionally...old conversations. This is about cover ups, and the outing of a CIA opperative which by law is a treasonous act. I do believe treason is a much higher crime then lying about a BJ aquired in the Oval Office.
commentary on the house vote here.
With Clinton, I have to admit, it's getting into a subject I haven't researched as extensively as present day stuff, but one reason it was hard to pin him down was tremendous pressure from the media, the public, and most especially the white house not to move forward: Things like witnesses were threatened or paid off, some actually died mysterious "accidental" deaths, stuff like that. There just isn't any of that going on today, and STILL the only thing Fitzgerald has come up with so far (Libby's indictment) is falling apart just because of new evidence from Woodward and others. The conspiracy links just aren't there like they were in the Clinton days... There's just no evidence that there's anything going on here. Remember that they could find anything on Al Capone, either...Clinton was the same way...everybody knew about the skeletons in the closet, but nobody could "prove" anything to the system.
Maybe that says something about the system, and how useless it is, and we need a new system...that's a legitimate question, and an issue I think should be addressed... It's probably not likely to happen anytime soon, but things like that happen because people start talking about it outside of the fever swamp, which is the only place plamegate matters to anybody. The average American doesn't know the difference between a special prosecutor and the garbage man. So the politicians are probably safe in their own little world with a useless special legal system.
You sound like the trade federation guy in Star Wars Episode I in the senate where, in refering to the invasion of a world by his own organization, he says, "There is no proof" - The problem with this is that regardless whether the Senate knows about it yet, the "proof" is in the actions, and while the statement itself may be "true", that nobody there could produce any evidence, the original charge is still accurate.
Which makes my next statement seem to contradict, however...
Yes treason is a higher crime....but it never happened. It has not been shown that Plame was undercover, or that anyone acted with the intent to "out" her.
Accusations on both sides, but in the case of clinton, evidence was found and reported...but most of it was never acted upon in a legal sense for one reason or another... If you ignore it, that's your problem, but it is out there.
in the case of Plame, evidence of "treason" has not been found, so there's nothing to ignore... You can find all the clinton stuff yourself if you really want to know, but I don't think you do, and whatever I present it's unlikely you'll believe it anyway, so why should I waste my time?
Your constitutional reference in Article 1 Section 10 Clause 3:
"No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."
This is a regulation of State's powers clause, but even if you assume it isn't, Congress gave consent, so that argument is void.
Congress gave consent based on false intelligence. Now, there is an investigation into who knew it was false. Sounds like a fair deal to me.
Mike M is a misogynistic freak, and watch out, your stereotyping trait is showing (a big ol' sign of being a rightwing black/white thinker). I haven't had a crush on a celeb since I was 9, and even then, I sure didn't make a big deal of it. I know just as many men (if not more) who have crushes on female celebrities. And no, NOT the gay ones. What a grotesque stereotype. As a woman and a feminist, I'm highly offended. If anything, you will find more men blogs with "She's so hot" comments than womens'. Read a bit, won't you? Jerk.
Oh and Mike, by the way: I think Fitzgerald appeals to women because, like most people in general, we are attracted to the powerful. It's human nature, NOT A GENDER THING. Try thinking of folks on an individual basis. I bet it will make your brain hurt.
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